Follow
Share
Read More
This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
1 2 3
Ceb - your are NOT obligated to fulfill mom's every wish and whim. She can ask to go to the moon but it's not possible.

Same in this case, mom can ask to have nephew and his wife to care for her, but if they are not willing to take the job for what you offer in pay then they are NOT available. Tell mom they won't take the job, they are not available.

Take mom to tour a few AL places so she can see what they offer. Mom will have friends her age to socialize with.

If you offer less than what the nephew and wife ask, and they reluctantly accept, they will NOT be happy with less money and it will reflect in their care of your mom.

It is very common for employees who think they are underpaid to underwork, underperform and resort to stealing to get what they think they deserve.

I would not keep the nephew and wife as caregivers.

I do think that $20,000 which comes out to $240,000 a year is a lot, that's $120,000/per caregiver a year. But what you're paying is $36,000/yr per caregiver is low. Check the rates in your area to find out what caregivers make plus over-time and see what the reasonable amount should be.

It's best to find outsiders, and have formal employment contracts with them. If they don't perform the job satisfactorily, they can be let go. With relatives, if you fire them, you ruin the relationship as well.
Helpful Answer (8)
Report

ceb - your mother is better off moving into an assisted living facility. It should cost about half of what the nephew and his wife are asking for.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
ceb60714 Mar 2021
Agreed but this is what she wants to be cared at home. So this is what I’m trying to negotiate for her
(0)
Report
See 1 more reply
Whatever she decides on, Mom (or her POA) needs to set it up properly by getting a contract set up (by someone familiar with eldercare AND local employment laws) and enrolling with a payroll service to handle compliance with taxes, etc.

Compensation:

Start with the basics. How many hours do they work and how much are they paid per hour?

Someone needs to be there 24/7. Most likely she doesn't have to pay for the caregiver's sleep hours unless they can't get at least 5 hours sleep straight.

What is the minimum wage? Given that she probably won't expect them to "work" during all work hours, starting your negotiation at minimum wage isn't unreasonable. You can consider what other perks she may be willing to offer.

An example: She needs 20 hours a day of paid coverage per day and the minimum wage in IL is $11.00 an hour. Live in caregivers cover 8 hours a day each. The other niece averages 4 hours a day over the week.

So:
Caregivers 1 & 2: 40 hours a week straight pay plus 16 hours overtime: $704 a week each. Payroll will have Mom pay her share of SS, Medicare, etc., so she is out of pocket something like $758 per week each or $8K a month for all three caregivers.
They will also deduct the caregiver's share and federal/state/local income tax withholding. I'm not going to try the tax withholding, but just taking out SS and Medicare give them a net of about $650.

Caregiver 3: 28 hours a week straight pay: $308 a week, with a net less than $285. Note that she works half the hours, but gets paid less than half as much because the other two get overtime for hours worked in excess of 40 per week.

The payroll service may be willing to run a few examples at various pay rates, or someone can pick up a payroll tax book at the library and build a spreadsheet.

Food costs

Would she prefer to set a weekly budget amount or review receipts? Give them access to a household account or use delivery/curbside from a store with a credit card on file? Is Mom on a special diet? Will she pay for beer or whatever pricey convenience foods she won't consume herself?

Outside services

These are negotiable. If she pays more or offers other perks, she should be able to expect more. For example, if they are able to work or study from home, they should be willing to visibly work for Mom too. If Mom is picky about how the work is done, she may prefer to keep her current providers. The caregivers need to be flexible about 10 minute tasks like changing a light bulb or picking fresh tomatoes from the yard, but may balk at a two hour project too many days in a row.

A few thoughts

Carrying her in her wheelchair downstairs doesn't sound safe to me. Is a ramp or assistive device feasible?

Spell out expectations. Will there be a probationary period to see if it works before they give up their current housing? How much personal property can they bring and what can they put outside of their room(s)? Can they have friends over? Do they have a pet or does Mom and will they agree on petcare rules? When/where can they drink/smoke/watch football?

Have an exit strategy. How will they know it isn't working anymore? How much notice does either side need to give? If they are "terminated for cause" do they have to get out right away, but if Mom passes or goes into care can they stay 90 days but have to pay for utilities and food?

Note: the wife may be extra cranky because she doesn't think her husband will do his half of their hours. So in my example she'd end up with all 32 overtime hours and he'd just do 40 hours a week.

If it makes Mom happy and she can afford it, I'd say build in opportunities for pay increases and respite care for time off. Keeping her in her home with 24 hour care may just cost more than institutional care.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report

Also on the idea of getting the estate to pay them $15k for every month they work from moms estate, that’s all kinds of wrong.
- They are performing a job and should be getting paid for hours worked with benefits and full reporting to tax authorities in the quarter or year of work. That’s how employment works in the US.
- Your mom can in her will put in a bequest to them (or whomever she wants to) but there is no guarantee that mom will die with assets or with enough assets to do a distribution as per the terms of the will.
- Getting old in America is very $$$$ expensive. At 93, she’s outlived the actuarial tables, so she could live to 94 or 104. If, imho, she gets close to 100 she could outlive her money between the costs of care and costs to upkeep her home & other assets unless she has for sure 1M+ liquid. Otherwise there’s risk might not be $ left in the estate.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report

The NH in my town charges $9000 per month.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
ceb60714 Mar 2021
So for the 2 of them you are suggesting a rate of $150 a day each?
(0)
Report
$20k a mo, well that is above costs of 24/7 private pay at a NH in most areas. AND ADDITIONALLY a NH will have a whole range of staff from dietary to activities to therapists & full time nursing care staff & a MD medical director. Plus on site medication management, transportation and religious outreach. For that amount of $$$, your mom should totally have the expectation of that level of professional care and amenities.

What your nephews wife wants (she’s driving this notion, isn’t she) is beyond egregious. $20k PLUS free room & board, right?
+ $1000 for food. Just u wait Lil Missy is gonna be asking for a car...

Lil Missy is not professionally degreed in anything, is she? FFS 10k a mo is what a MsRN makes. She either a blatant opportunist or is really dumb as a sm box of rocks. I’d suggest that your brother gets a private investigator to run a bkgrd on her to find out which one it is.

On the “for profit bills 20k a mo”.... well the for profit agency actually pays their workers maybe 40-55% of the 20large. The company does full FICA, workmans comp, retirement, health insurance and Covid compliance. They likely also do some type of training, like w Red Cross to have their staffing certified. For 20K, the agency is able to cover all shifts should a scheduled worker have their own emergency, like that morning they a running a temp of 100 so cannot work safely due to Covid concerns. Nephew & his wife provide NONE of this.

Again 20k a mo + free R&B + food $ is beyond egregious.
None of the trio are professionals or have licenses, they are baseline workers. In the private sector, I bet they would get paid $10 -$14 hr with benefits taken out from the $, $20-25k a yr. Its a low wage job. Home health companies are always looking for workers, you can probably easily go onto your states Dept of Employment Security and look at jobs posts as what hourly wage places like this are paying. Caregiving is basically viewed as low skill scut work w/low wages, unless your degreed or licensed. Right now at $100 day every day, they are both making 36k a year, that’s a decent income in the US especially as they have no rent to worry about.

Question for you..... for last year when Lil Missy & your nephew & the niece worked to care for your mom, did you - as your moms DPOA - report all in moms 2020 taxes? And did you as DPOA have all 3 do W-9 & maybe I-9s? Did mom pay FICA on the wages?

If not, you might, might be able to get past this for 2020 taxes, but for 2021 you as moms dPOA must do all the reporting and FICA quarterly payments as per IRS regulations. IRS rules on household workers as being employees and NOT as contract labor is pretty clear. Its not just an IRS issue but if your mom should find herself actually outliving her money (it happens) and mom needs to apply to Medicaid to pay for her room & board at a facility, cause shes now 96 and her needs are beyond staying at her home is feasible for, then all that $$$ paid to lil Missy, your nephew & niece will be viewed by Medicaid as “gifting” by mom and make her ineligible for Medicaid for a long penalty period. Mom has to have a legit caregiver agreement and proper payment with FICA & IRS reporting to get beyond this. Medicaid has a 5 year lookback.
Helpful Answer (10)
Report

Agencies generally charge around $25. per hour, but the caregivers get about half of that.

I assume that you will take out taxes, pay SS, etc? Your mother becomes an employer and is responsible for maintaining Worker's Comp insurance and an adequate umbrella policy in case of injury.

You are, in essence, asking nephew and his wife to give up their lives and privacy. Are you sure they want to do this? Maybe they are asking this amount so that the answer will be no?

Find out what level of care mom needs from the local Area Agency on Aging (called a "needs assessment"). Is she at the point that she needs skilled nusing ($11k per month where I live) or Assisted Living with some add on services? Find out the cost for that. She would have better socialization in those settings.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report
Vsvechin Mar 2021
They are not giving up there lives. They probably desperately need a job and a place to live. They are taking advantage of the situation and are very greedy.
(4)
Report
As long as it meets the minimum wage rules in your jurisdiction, you can negotiate whatever rate is agreeable.

The $15,000 from the estate looks dodgy. The caregivers should be paid as they go and not try to dodge payroll and income tax. The recipient may be able to deduct some medical related payments if she itemizes.

Using the for profit's $20,000 as a benchmark should also require matching their other assumptions:
- payroll processing
- payroll tax matching
- insurance (liability and workers comp)
- substitute caregiver pool
- no guests/pets in client's home; personal property allowed in bedroom if overnight
- meal prep may include eating with client depending on shift length
- light housekeeping, including client's personal laundry
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

I would go with unrelated people, this seems high
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
ceb60714 Mar 2021
I would like to but mom wants my nephew and wife to care for her. I need a reasonable fair rate to counter her request for $20k month that won’t brake the bank. The niece in law feels $100 a day each for her and husband ($72k a year) is too little for what they provide in care. I feel it is more then adequate
(3)
Report
1 2 3
This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Ask a Question
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter