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Hi everyone, I’m new to the forum and I have been reading many good posts about dealing with and being responsible for a narcissistic mother. Mine is an abusive, psychotic, habitually lying monster, always has been. As a child, she told me “I wish you had never been born,” “you ruined my life by being born,” and “You’re dead to me.” I had a member of my so-called family insist she wanted to take care of my mother, that is until that individual ended up in prison (sentenced for 54 years…GOOD!) for sexually assaulting and molesting her own daughter. As you can see, my family are all a bunch of dysfunctional guttersnipes.
I joined the military to escape my family. I served for over 20 years, married, had a wonderful son, a great career and lived on the other side of the country from my horrible mother. After retiring from the military, I earned my Master’s degree (the only person in my family to do so), went back to work for the government and started a new, happy life. That all ended in 2017 when I had to give up my career and life to relocate and take care of a mother who is a narcissistic, petulant 5 year old trapped in the body of a 78 year old monster. She’s so rotten, her grandchildren (including my son) want absolutely nothing to do with her. Since 2017, my physical, emotional, spiritual and mental health has been a downward spiral and I now have both a psychotherapist and a psychiatrist to help me. Sometimes it feels like that doesn’t work. The only good thing about my situation is I have my own house so I have separation from my mother. I would probably go completely off a cliff if I didn’t. She lives two doors down from me and I call her twice a day (45 second phone calls) to see if she’s breathing. I have become isolated, I have no friends here, I have lived with depression for 6 years now and am terrified that my life is wasting away being here, living an unwanted life, caring for a woman I don’t want to have anything to do with. She abused my sister and me equally as children and put us both on bad trajectories for becoming adults. Thankfully, I chose a different path from my sister: she got into drugs, alcohol, abusive relationships with men and developed bipolar disorder, PTSD and never matured beyond the age of 14. She was so badly abused by my mother (my mother had specific/succinct punishment styles for each of us), she ran away from home at 14 and her growth/evolution stopped.
My sister died last year at the young age of 59 and I blame my mother for destroying her as a child. She never recovered. That was my mother’s mission: to destroy my sister and me. It was folly for her. She enjoyed being cruel to us. My narcissist mother never celebrated any of my achievements, berates me now for my accomplishments, and yet praises the individual in prison every time she completes a prison class or course. She’s also befriended two other prisoners, incarcerated for murdering an elderly man, and insists they are not bad people and don’t deserve the sentence they were given. And yet, I am treated terribly by my mother, as if I am a horrible human being. She talks about me behind my back and tells awful lies about me to receive sympathy, praise from other people and to get people on her side.
There are probably people out there who think I am a terrible person because of her. I used to be empathetic but I have burned through my empathy and depleted my empathy reserves. I despise my mother, the thought of having to be around her, see her or listen to her habitual lies just fuels my depression and all I think about is how I can’t wait for her to die so I can be released from this unwanted obligation and find my happiness, peace and joy again. Does anyone have any tips that helped you to deal with a psychopath, narcissistic mother whose sole purpose has been to bring nothing but abuse, misery, cruelty, violence and suffering to her children? Thank you for taking the time to read my post. It’s really helpful and much appreciated.

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I took care of my Narcissistic mother who had end stage cancer. This was over 20 years ago, before the term was used so often to describe this personality trait. Which, after she died, going into therapy and the therapist described and used that term about her....Wow! Yep. So....I did what I thought best and right for myself at the time. I took care of her. She may have thanked me once. She never changed-they can't. I did a very good job taking care of her. I also had an excellent support system too, none of whom were my immediate family.

My current mantra about difficult people They don't have to change. I can.

Have you signed onto a binding contract that includes:
Verbal abuse?
Emotional neglect?
Situational depression?
If so, why is that acceptable?

She will never, ever change.

You can.
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If she has a key to your home, get it back (covertly) or change the locks. Cut back on the calls and contact. Make her assume more responsibility for her own life. Even if failure is pretty much guaranteed.

Narc moms take, take, take, then demand more. As she ages, her “needs” will increase and she will always turn to you. Narcs don’t hold themselves responsible so her problems will be yours to solve. Trust me and the others here who are further down this road. You can try and try and try, but no expressions of love, appreciation or remorse are coming. They are feelings outside of the narc mom’s ability to process. You can kill yourself trying, but her approval will never come.

She must be responsible for herself. Try to distance yourself (believe me, I know it’s tough), appreciate yourself, live fully and freely, even just to spite her.
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Run! Mimic the gingerbread man (or gingerbread woman.)
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I think it was poor decision making to come back to your mother and resume care of her, don't you? Because, of course, there IS no dealing with such a person, and you have long known that.

You mention obligation, but you HAVE NO OBLIGATION to a parent. In fact, the obligations move the other way. The parent has an obligation to the child to provide love, sustenance and guidance until that child is of age and able to function on his or her own. Your mother failed in her obligations because of her own human limitations.

Many narcissistic and/or psychotic people did not (happily) have children. They have no children to care for them.
I would pretend, in my own mind, that this person, with her severe limitations, had no children.
I would move away and get on with my own life, as once before you did, as you recognize CAN be done.

Leave your mother to the loving arms of the state. Wish her well. Get on with your life.
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One thing comes to mind when I was reading your post, you can't recover where you are being abused. One word: move. You do not have to help an abuser. What would your mother had done if you decided not to return.

What made you move two doors down from her? You are going to have to detach yourself emotionally from your mother. Tell your therapist that you want to learn tools to detach from an emotionally abusive person. This would be the place to start. This way you and your therapist can create a recovery plan to work towards your recovery. If the therapist is not willing to do this, then fire them and find a therapist who is better equipped to handle relational abuse therapy.

As far as I am concerned; to hell with abusers parents or not. Stop wasting your life on people like this. Start incorporating things in your life that you enjoy doing. For the 45 second phone calls; stop. If she calls badgering you with nonsense, hang up. You don't have to listen to abuse, accept abuse or place yourself in situations where you are going to be abused.

Insanity is doing the same old things and expecting different results. Do something differently. Do the opposite of what you've been doing. If your mother has money, tell her to call an agency and hire a home health aide.

Look for a realtor to help you find a suitable place to live.

Do you work? If not, get a full time job. Get your butt moving. Depression is due to inaction. Even if it is a bad action like getting angry and slamming the dam% phone down when she calls with this nonsense, would be a change of action.
Since she has already labeled you crazy, mean or whatever, give it back to her. I had parents that did this crapola to me. The mother got ill and died leaving me in charge of a sister who should have been institutionalized years ago. She died in 2015. I had her placed in a group home before I moved. Dad took to criticizing me every chance he got to the older sibs. It got to the point with me that I would visit him every six months but he would call every Sunday with his nonsense. I was almost blue in the face. So I know what you are going through.
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The first thing that came to mind is wondering why you are taking care of her. You say you had to. Did you really? Why? Why are you moving so close by to her?

I would start by escaping that living situation to create some space so that you can breathe again. The next thing I would do is get some help taking care of her. She already killed your sister. She will take you down with her, too.

You say you are in therapy. What does your therapist say to do?
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Your story is heartbreaking. I’m so sorry for what you have been through and what you are experiencing now.

Read your heading over again, “Does anyone have any tips that helped you deal with a psychopath, narcissistic mother?”

You’ve correctly identified your mother’s characteristics. That’s a good thing because sometimes people defend them due to the millions of excuses that they make for them.

It may be true that disturbed people have been abused themselves and carry on with abusing others and even themselves by perhaps not knowing how to reach out for help.

Nevertheless; at some point in time, others must realize that there aren’t any valid reasons for family members, friends or any other acquaintances to continue to be victimized by a psychotic, narcissistic person.

I would suggest that your posting be changed to, ‘How to leave a psychopath, narcissistic mother?’ Leaving is your only hope for living a healthy lifestyle. Your mother (in name only) is mentally ill and cannot show any empathy towards you. Any empathy that she pretends to show to others isn’t genuine. She will continue to take advantage of you until you permanently step away.

I realize that change doesn’t usually happens overnight. It’s a process and can be a longer journey than we expected.

What type of therapist are you seeing? Seek out a licensed professional who has experience with others in your situation. Has your therapist suggested that you stop being involved in your mother’s life? Have your therapists delved into what is important to you?

You don’t need coping skills on how to manage your circumstances. You need advice on how to recognize your value as a human being and moving forward in your life.

Wishing you peace as you work through this difficult time in your life. Take care.
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Hi Donewithher - you've very welcome. It sounds like we're on a similar path. I, too, am trying to rebuild after a lot of damage from parents in these recent years...so I truly understand first-hand how you feel. It's a lot for me to process for myself. You are an inspiration and very strong - and hopefully for us both, there'll be light at the end of this and good things to come!
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Donewithher Aug 2023
Thanks, Hope! We will keep on keeping on and we will persevere! You are also a strong and beautiful person and we will make it through! 🤗
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Borregomom, It's time to reclaim your life. I actually think consulting a good life coach rather than a therapist might be the better plan. The past is the past, no use dwelling on what happened in your childhood. It's time to plan for a future.

Growing up in an abusive environment destroys a child's self esteem. I think you are waiting for some sign of approval and appreciation that your mother is thoroughly incapable of giving.

Go out and live your best life. Good luck to you.
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ventingisback Aug 2023
“Go out and live your best life.”

So true.
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One can’t “deal with” psychopaths, narcs. In an ideal world, one stays away from them.
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Ariadnee Sep 2023
So true. Haven't seen my father in over 20 years. He's a psychopath. Nothing good to say about him.
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Oh, Borrego -- I cried reading your question. I had a narcissistic mother whom I loved and wanted to have a happy relationship with...but in seconds a visit or phone call degenerated into such cruel criticism of me that I would cry for days. I (who actually had an interesting, happy life) was never anything but a failure to her. Once when I drove 500 miles to visit my parents she was grimacing fiercely at me when I walked in, and the first words she said were "You don't love me, do you!" Then she said the words no child ever needs to hear: "You're unnatural." (This was not because I had made sexual choices that were not acceptable at that time; it was because I didn't stop my own life to worship her and be her whipping post). I stormed out of the house, crying, and went to the hotel to pack; I called my kind husband and he said "Don't do this to yourself. Please come home."

While I was packing my father arrived. He hated her, but because he had become a serious clinical depressive (my mother said "Depression is just another word for laziness and stupidity") he seemed incapable of leaving or protecting himself. He begged me to come back and "apologize" because otherwise she'd take it out on HIM. I loved my Pop, but he continually threw ME to the lions to protect himself. I did go back. It was torture.

There is much more to this story. After my father died my mother, who could be VERY charming, got two nice guys, a gay couple, to take care of her. At one point she told them she was going to have her bathroom redone -- could she move in with them for a few weeks? They reluctantly said yes. She moved in with them and immediately sold her house. They had been brought up to be kind to the elderly and so let her stay. The older of the two, a formerly healthy guy of 48, died two years later in bed; he had begun to have stress-related heart trouble and cried daily because of her cruelty. On the night he died she called me immediately. I could hear Joe, his partner, crying "Howard! Wake up, wake up!" Her only words to me were "Howard's dead. I am NOT going to a home." Not a word of sorrow or sympathy for Joe.

My father had left a WWII pistol. Poor Joe gave it to the police; he was afraid he'd shoot himself. I got the priest at her church to visit her with a few friendly members. They tried to talk to her about the religious compassion of going to assisted living and freeing Joe. She said immediately "Joe doesn't need a life. He has me. He can't kick an old crippled lady out." Joe's family had immigrated from Mexico and had the strong Latino tradition of caring for the elderly. All of them tried to help, but my mother nearly drove all of them mad. I would have tried to help but she hated me and told everyone I was an "unnatural demon" and would not have let me in the door.

My therapist and primary doc both advised me to just cut it off. She had made ME a helpless depressive like my father. So for the last two years of her life I talked daily to Joe, but not to her; I estranged myself from her, and it saved my life. After she died I gave Joe my entire inheritance and after a bad period of misusing drugs, he got therapy, lived with his loving family, met a new man and started a life. She had killed my father and Howard and nearly killed Joe and me. If she hadn't died (at 89) I'm sure Joe would have committed suicide.

My story isn't nearly as awful as yours, but the lesson to me was that you can't and must not stay with a cruel narcissist. When she died I felt free, although I still have many wounds that I deal with in therapy. Anti-depressants don't help much. I don't have any real advice (in spite of the length of this story) except "Leave. Move away and stop calling. Save yourself. Kindness does not require that you kill yourself for this terrible person."
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ventingisback Aug 2023
(((Hug)))
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HI Donewithher - wow - yours was a really powerful post. I wish you all the very best wishes in reclaiming and rebuilding your life again - you'll be a success with that!
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Donewithher Aug 2023
Thank you Hope - it has been difficult, but I have a strong faith and am drawing on that daily for help. I feel better getting my story out, there is so much more, but the details are not necessary. I am trying to transmute the poison into positivity and even with the worry about supporting myself, I know I will be provided for if I keep going forward and not let the poison into my soul. I find my family members very sad that they will allow a deluded old woman to dictate who they can associate with, but that's not a reflection of me - it speaks to who they are. As for my mother, she will have to answer for what she's done eventually and I have sadness in my heart for her very empty life that she would first destroy her husband and family, then turn her hatred on her daughters. I learned that getting angry isn't the way - it will eat you alive and destroy you. Don't internalize any of the vitriol, this has little or nothing to do with you as a person. Try to minimize or eliminate all contact and let them stew in their own misery. It is their problem, not yours. I have no guilt, I did what I thought was right and if she can't see that - that's on her. I did a lot of research about narcs and that has really helped. This website has good resources: Daughters Of Narcissistic Mothers | Understanding and Healing For Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers and there are many others out there. Don't take on their misery - if you can't go no-contact, at least don't ingest the poison - this is who they are and they love making others miserable - makes them feel powerful. You can't help someone who refuses to be helped. They don't even love themselves, how can they ever love or appreciate you? You have to give yourself the support and caring that they were incapable of giving in order to heal your life and move forward. Thanks again, Hope, for your feedback and I hope Borrogo can also find some peace.
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I went through almost exactly what you went through. I was abused by my narc mother my whole life and parentified at the age of 13 to take care of the family while she attended to her own wants. I left my career to take care of her 6 years ago and spent my pension money for my expenses when I couldn't work from home. Things went well the first few years since I did exactly what she wanted when and how she wanted it but when my 40 year old nephew started grifting her out of thousands of dollars, I put a stop to it. I was POA at the time. That's when the trouble started. She refused to listen to me about diet (she's diabetic and on dialysis) and when she had knee replacements, she refused to do the exercises until she became almost immobile - which is what she's wanted for years. I just tried to keep the peace and would usually give up on trying to get her on a healthy diet. I can't explain to you all what I did for her - the endless ER visits, giving her intravenous antibiotics for a whole month (while trying to work to get more money), sleeping on her couch for months at a time with a bad back. I begged her in 2018 that we move in together so I'd at least have my own room and not a couch and she threw a fit and said it would kill her. I asked her to sign documentation for caregiver allowance to take the financial strain off me and she flat out refused. Finally things came to a head when she kept falling at home and since she outweighs me by about 80 lbs, I couldn't lift her without hurting myself. When I did hurt myself last Thanksgiving lifting her, my sister and I decided to put her in a nice private care home. She was furious, but really didn't have a choice since she assigned us as co-POAs behind our backs years ago. I have a cousin and brother who teamed up with her to demonize me for the choice and then she decided she wanted public care since the cousin played it up as being utopia. I tried to warn her, but she wouldn't listen - I was the enemy at that point. Then she engineered a fall at the private home - but the after-effects left her with an amputated leg due to neuropathy and then she was transferred to public care where she found out it was far worse than she was told by my cousin. Then I was to blame for everything - her lost leg, everything was my fault. She roped everyone in the family into her narrative and I've lost everyone except two sisters who know the truth. Now I've lost most of my family, am broke and trying to restart my career again at 57 which isn't easy. I went no-contact with her four months ago and she still hasn't given up - now roping in acquaintances to keep harassing me. I am dealing with things the best I can and am considering moving to another town to get away. She did this same thing with my dad after their divorce and drove him out of the province where he subsequently died at the age of 65. I recommend getting out while you still have the strength to do it. I tried so hard to get my mother to love me, but she turned on me so fast, it made my head spin. Both my sister and I resigned POA and now my handicapped brother has to do it. My other brother refused, even after he helped to blow up the relationship. I am trying to move forward, but it is difficult. However, I was in such bad shape physically from running after her that she would have eventually killed me. That is much better now, BP is now normal and my heart condition stabilized. Even though starting over is hard, it is better than to have someone kill you. Narcs are incapable of love, it's just not in them, so don't kill yourself for them. I once talked about dying and all she said was "who will take care of me?" You are a means to an end and you have to save yourself because they will use you up and spit you out. This is my first time posting, been reading questions for months but your situation really stood out to me. Take care of yourself first! I wish I'd have known this years ago.
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This is horrible story.
Everything we would not want in a parent.
Yet, it happened and you moved on and created your own happy life.
I believe you can do it again. It is up to you.
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The problem isn’t your insane mother or how to manage her. The problem is you thinking you were obligated to her. And then you threw away the great life you built to just to get more abuse.

Think about that. Why did you feel your own mental health and life wasn’t worth having? Why do you not matter?

Really you became the little girl who wanted mom’s love. And that need to be loved by a parent is very deep. Your feelings didn’t matter. You tried to make her happy with you. And you’re still trying. Even with being abused daily.

YOU MATTER. She does not.

Your mother has no power or authority over you. She doesn’t love you. Never did. Never will. It’s her loss. She’s a bitter, evil hag. Your life matters more than begging her for love. She stole your whole childhood and your self esteem. Do not let her steal years of your adult life anymore.

Just be honest with her. “Mom, you obviously don’t like me being here. Hell, you never liked me for being born! So I will call APS, pack my stuff, and I will be out of your life so you can finally be happy.” Could also give her a heads up: “Mom, I’ve found a new place to live and am moving next month. So you have a month to find someone to take over.” She’ll rage; let her. You’re outta there.
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NeedHelpWithMom Aug 2023
Love, love, love your answer, Loopy!

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Hi borregomom - I'm really sorry to hear what you're going thru. There are many of us on this site who have terribly abusive toxic parent(s); including me - so I feel for you.

What specifically do you feel you need to do for your mother? From your profile, all you mentioned is that she has some anxiety - so, it doesn't seem as though it's necessary for you to live near her - is that correct? Anything necessary can be done remotely - such as ordering groceries - or getting her assistance to check in on her other than you. You actually owe her NOTHING. You are under NO OBLIGATION to you - EVER. Seriously.

If you did nothing for her and walked away now, that would be great. She sounds horrible. That ideally needs to be your goal. You need to take this time for YOU. Whatever you need to do to repair your life of the past few years...and if that means moving and trying to regain whatever aspects of your life that you gave up, then that is what you need to focus on for yourself. You're betraying your own self if you continue on the path that you're on. You need to change your mindset and seriously stay away from her. You have no obligation to take care of her on any level.
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Get away from her and never look back.

That's all the advice you really need. Your professional counselors should be able to lead you through this situation, and you CAN do it. Good luck as you make another positive change in your life.
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I wholeheartedly agree that you should never, ever care for your abuser.

That being said - I also know from experience how very hard it is for the children of narcissists to break away from their narcissistic parent's control. I have watched my DH and SIL scramble for YEARS to please their father, trying desperately to make him happy, to provide care for an argumentative, angry, lazy, miserable old man who wants everyone to be as miserable as he is, and who believe that everyone - most especially his children were put on earth to do his bidding and meet his needs alone.

From the perspective of an outsider who has watched this happen for years and tried desperately to protect someone I love from a narcissist - I don't know what to say except that you have to do everything in your power to shore up your own self-esteem- completely independent of what she thinks and says. Because a narcissistic parent spends the formative years grooming their children - and make no mistake - they do groom. They take the years when they should be protecting their children from predators and become the predator themselves. They indoctrinate and condition their children to do their will, without question. And they make sure that their children do not believe that THEY themselves are deserving of anything. That anything the parent does for them is much more than they could ever deserve.

You do not owe your mother anything. If you feel you must somehow provide care for her, the more distance you can put between yourself and her, the better off you will be. Narcissistic abuse is a very real thing. It can do very real damage. Lasting damage.

And I hate to say this - but narcissism gets worse as their sphere of influence shrinks. And if you add in dementia or even just age related cognitive decline - layered on narcissism - it typically just gets uglier. Manipulation, trying to control what they may still have the ability to control, anger, rage, memory loss.

And the worst part. The LIES. The lies. As someone gets into those "protected class" age ranges - and their lies get worse - it can put you at risk. You have to look out for yourself.

You desperately need to distance yourself. If that means a nursing home or assisted living at some point, then so be it. You cannot be the one to hands on caregive.
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betskand Aug 2023
I particularly liked your point about "narcissism gets worse as their sphere of influence shrinks." This happened exactly as you say to my mother; I think she was always a narcissist, but back when she was younger with a job and many people around her she could spread the control around more so that nobody (but my father) was really having his heart and mind crushed constantly. By the time it was Howard, Joe and I -- we got the full force of thwarted control needs.

I also discovered something: every so often someone (except for Howard and Joe) would have some insight about what she was trying to do to them and would LEAVE. This happened to a home nurse who saw her once a week. She could be extremely charming and seductive, and that's what she did to him. She also started trying to FORCE him to convert to her church. He had a family who were devout members of a different church and they began to try to save him...not because my mother's religion was bad, but because it would separate him from them, and also because for my mother, it would have become a cult (of her) and not just a church. He wised up (after converting), converted back, and refused to see her again. Narcissists don't manage to overwhelm everyone -- perhaps the ones they succeed with have been brought up (as Howard and Joe were) to be extremely caring with the elderly, or (like me and my father) had been deliberately moulded to do what she wanted.

I think it's a good education for people who are young to identify narcissists and refuse to fall for their control games. Most of us are kind and see the troubles of the elderly and want to help. That is just what a narcissist is looking for.
Betskand
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"As you can see, my family are all a bunch of dysfunctional guttersnipes"

Please don't trivialize what your family of rapists and child abusers are by calling them guttersnipes. A guttersnipe is a scruffy and badly behaved child who spends most of their time on the street. Would you really compare a badly behaved child to the physical, emotional and sexual child abusers in your family tree?

"That all ended in 2017 when I had to give up my career and life to relocate and take care of a mother who is a narcissistic, petulant 5 year old trapped in the body of a 78 year old monster."

Why you would choose to give up your entire life for your abuser? News flash you don't have to wait for your abuser to die before you decide to cut her and your other family members out of your life for good.

Here's my tip: Cut off all contact with your mother. You owe her nothing. You have no obligation to see or take care of or help your abuser. It is sick that you live 2 doors down from your abuser and that you call her twice a day to see if she is still breathing. Move away from her ASAP and get your life back.
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I’m so sorry for the pain you’ve experienced and that you never had the mother you needed. Please know you never “had to” uproot your life to be near mom and act as her caregiver. Mom was supposed to plan for her own future and needs, and if she didn’t, it’s not on you to do so. For your own health and future, please move ASAP to a place away from this toxic situation. Cultivate relationships that bring good things to your life. No one should be a caregiver for an abusive parent. It’s bad for you both, you need peace and health, mom needs a caregiver that isn’t emotionally invested and can provide help without bitterness and resentment. Not your fault you feel that way, but it doesn’t make a good caregiver. The role is hard enough with a parent you’ve had a good relationship with, impossible when it’s been as you describe. I wish you peace as you back away and move forward
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The answer to your question is that you never attempt to care for your abusive parent.

There is a book called Boundaries, by Townsend and Cloud. Get it. Read it.

Read this:

https://www.agingcare.com/discussions/if-you-are-going-to-become-a-caregiver-480769.htm?orderby=recent
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Welcome to the forum, Bor!

I'm so sorry that you thought you "had' to take care of your mother. You didn't. You don't.

Figure out with the help of your therapist how to leave and get back to living.
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Why were you "forced" to give up your life to take care of your mother?

You have a therapist and psychiatrist. The therapist should be helping you to take the necessary steps to extricate yourself from this situation. Why aren't they?
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NeedHelpWithMom Aug 2023
My thoughts exactly! My therapist had my best interests at heart.

Having said this, change doesn’t usually happen overnight. I certainly hope that the OP will find a way to change her situation.

If needed, she should look into finding a new therapist. One that specifically specializes in these things.

NHWM
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