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My elderly mom fell down a week ago and was admitted to the hospital for surgery as her flesh was peeled off. After multiple surgeries for wound cleaning and skin grafting, she is now insisting to go home. But my family won't be able to take care of her fully for 2 weeks as required by my hospital. We are thinking of sending her to a senior care hospital where there's nurses but she's refusing. Today she called and asked me to lie to her doctor that I can take care of her at home. I refused and she ended the phone call in anger.


Should I have helped her? All I want is the best care for her. We are unable to hire someone at home to help either as her apartment is small.


Sorry I'm ranting from this point onwards... feeling so hurt and helpless as she implying that I'm unfilial and not following her wishes. She loved my brother more than me as I defy her in my younger days. She's not asking him to lie for her but only me... Her words are stabbing my heart today and it feels like I have not done enough for her. My bro being the golden boy in her eyes, will never do wrong by her. Even if he suggested seniorcare, she will think the idea is from me and shut him down. She knows my bro will listen to her in the end and get her home... It just feels like I'm so alone in this decision.


Now I am undecided and feeling conflicted because of her reaction in the phone call. really afraid that if I continued to resist she will hate me and no longer forgive me. So should I lie to her doctor for her?

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NO you should not lie to her Dr to appease her. If she needs the care you describe and therefore needs to be in a care facility for a few weeks then that is what she needs as family cannot be there 24/7. It is only a few weeks so certainly that is what is safer for her.

She may be being very negative towards you at the moment - but I suspect that the strong personality you have shown in the past, and her asking you not your brother is actually a complete opposite to the way you have interpreted it. She doesn't love your brother more - she trusts you more to make the right decision rather than just give in to her. If she were asked who she could rely on more it would in all probability be you because you don't fear doing what you feel to be right. It may feel as though she will no longer forgive you, but I think she knows where care for her really lies.
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No you should not have lied to your mother's doctor, it is against the best interest of your mother. If no one is available to care for mom for two weeks then she should be placed in a rehab facility until she can go home.

You and your brother should get together and make plans for mom. The big question is can mom continue to live on her own? If she is great, but you two should have plans in place for the time when mom can no longer be on her own.

I'm so sorry for the hurt and angst you feel. I wish you and your family the best and hope your mom gets better soon.
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I've not read all the responses, generally I prefer to do that first, but no, you shouldn't lie to her doctor saying you will provide the care if you can't do it. IF she doesn't get the proper care, she won't heal and it could get worse.

Don't let her words hurt you and make you feel guilty. You've done NOTHING wrong. If the golden boy wants to do her bidding and set her up for potential failure, that's on him.

Also, shame on your mother for asking you to lie! Usually when I see a title asking about lies, it's more about the fibs and white lies we have to resort to with those who have dementia.

Two weeks are nothing. She'll either get over it or she won't. You should never have to resort to lies to "earn" your mother love or forgiveness.
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I think your hovering on issues when u were younger. Please don’t do that. U were apart of that negative issue. It wasn’t one way. U mentioned u gave ur mom troubles it sounds like ur brother didn’t and he just stayed around. Part was ur fault which u admitted. God says forgive And keep forgiven. No one is perfect no one. Ur mom loves u just as much as ur brother. Sometimes one is just a little more compassionate than the other and it’s ok. Be kind to ur mom u only have one. When there gone there gone and u can’t say the things u wished u could. So, while u can do ur best. Read the word (Bible). Also, go to intouch.Org and listen to Charles Stanley. Check out the topics your feeling read and listen to Gods Word. Trust and Believe God will work all things together for the good. God Bless!
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disgustedtoo Sep 2021
"U mentioned u gave ur mom troubles it sounds like ur brother didn’t and he just stayed around."

Okay Dr Phil... really, NOT okay... what a load of bull crap. My OB was ALWAYS the "golden boy", but he was not. He beat on me physically and verbally, yet was still that "golden boy." He certainly was no goody-two-shows. The parents saw enough to know they had to move him upstairs before it was finished or he'd end up killing me.

There's a lot more to it, but YOU haven't lived ours lives so YOU have no idea what it's like or what was said or done.
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Don't lie to the doctor. Tell him what she is wanting and what she wants you to do so she can go home. Let him know you cannot take care of her as needed. My mom played this on my brothers, my niece and me for years. I had to go pick her up at all hours of the day and night several times a week because she would fall. One fall shattered her upper arm and shoulder, broke the other arms wrist and fractured the one with the busted arm. She had to have metal rods put in and she went home too early refusing rehab. I spent an entire summer going to her home and caring for her EVERY day and I was keeping two small grandkids. It wasn't just her I cared for, she had a huge garden that had to be tended, watered, food canned and she had chickens that I had to care for. My days started at about 6:30 am and ended at about 2 am. I was exhausted.
Her falls got worse and I spent hours at the hospital er. Her last bad fall at home happened just before Christmas in 2015 or 2016. She had hurt her arm again when she fell in her bathroom. Her arm was dislocated. They set it, she moved it around and out it popped again. Dr. set it 3 times in an hour. Then told me to take her home. I refused. I had them call her dr and tell her what had happened again. Her dr had told her one more fall and you go to assisted living or nursing home. Mom was also threatening to kill herself all the time. Moms dr told the er to admit her thru the holidays and let us find a place for her to go to rehab. She sent mom to one a few miles from us.
I felt like a house had been lifted off of my shoulders. Mom never got to come home because she refused to do rehab needed and kept falling. She went from rehab to nursing home to memory unit. She fell the last time in July 2018 and struck her head and it caused a stroke we believe. She passed in Dec. that year.
If your mom is half as stubborn as mom was, you needed to flat refuse to lie to the doctor and be responsible for her. Yes, I still have some guilt but, mom didn't give birth to us to be her nurses. And I and my husband have told our kids they are not here to be our caregivers.
Hugs to you and God bless.
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You were right to tell the doctor the truth because he needs to make the best decision for his patient which is why he called you. Your mom may be angry now, maybe she'll realize you were right in the end. What if she went home & you couldn't provide the care? She wouldn't be able to go to a rehab facility & then you would be at fault & never hear the end of it.
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You did the right thing.

Elderly mothers treating their daughters like trash and doting on their sons is a VERY common trend on this forum.
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Snowycoco: Imho, you're the one with the rational mind, not her. Do not lie to her physician.
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Don’t lie to the doctors and don’t have her go home and get home care. Unless there is 24 hour home nursing care you are going to have to be there, and the situation could become more difficult for you. Her attitude is already tapping into your past pain and trauma with her. Go to an elder law attorney to get POA paperwork drawn up. She will have to sign off on it so you will need to figure out a palatable way to present it to her. Perhaps you can work with the favored brother.

Go to the Medicare website to look for rehab/nursing care facilities. They are rated. My brother is in one with an overall 3 star rating but a 5 star resident care rating. Makes a big difference. Find those and ask the social worker to make the calls. That’s their job.

Start thinking about post rehab care. Can she live alone? There are some nice assisted living facilities—our elder law attorney recommended an excellent one. They have different levels or tiers of care. So she may simply have an apartment to herself where they check in on her, make sure she takes her meds and encourage her to get involved in activities. The one my brother was in even had a van that took people out to go shopping and doctor appointments. Good luck!
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disgustedtoo Sep 2021
"Go to an elder law attorney to get POA paperwork drawn up. She will have to sign off on it so you will need to figure out a palatable way to present it to her."

While everyone should have POAs assigned, just in case, it really isn't helpful or a priority in this situation. POAs allow one to legally manage someones bill paying/finances, sign documents, etc when they are incapable of doing these things. OP hasn't mentioned dementia, but even if she has dementia, POA isn't going to change the situation at hand. We can't force another person to do what they are refusing to do, even those with dementia. POAs don't give you that power over another person.

Given mom's attitude, this probably is not a good time to try to "present" a POA to her. At some point it can be suggested that it get set up, for some future need, but this mom sounds like so many I've read about on this forum - no way would they ever grant the POA because the kids just want to lock me up and take everything!
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How is lying to her doctor helping her?
Of course she will be upset.
You have to have the rational, clear(er) mind to do what is needed. She doesn't have the mental capacity to make sound decisions for herself.
* You must do what is in her best interest and lying isn't one of them unless it has to do with confused/dementia requests/conversations. Then, it isn't lying, it is keeping her calm as possible.
* You do not play around with her health or medical needs. Period.
* Yes, you may be the only person needing to make these decisions. You cannot control your mother nor your brother.
* Do what is right. You know what is right.
Gena / Touch Matters
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This really isn't about you and/or your family. It's about your mom's health and we'll-being. Talk to the doctor and then a social worker and then do what they feel is best for her.
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NO!!!! This isn't a little white lie. Her "hate and forgiveness" are issues you have no control over.
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Do unto others as you would have done to you. That’s my best advice. I think of it all the time as over 10 yrs have already passed as I take care of my mother. I’m the sole caregiver & I find a lot of solace in her comfort, peace & happiness.
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disgustedtoo Sep 2021
Implied guilt?

What works for you won't always work for others. When the caregiving is easy enough and the person is reasonable, sure, it can work. If one is financially set and doesn't need to work, sure, it can work. If one isn't raising a family so one can focus on the care giving, sure, it can work. But the reality is that more often than not the income from a job is needed, for current and future needs, there can be family to raise/tend to, the LO can be the meanest most cantankerous ornery bulb in the lot.

Do unto others - I made sure my mother had the best care in a wonderful place. I've told my kids to do the same for me, should I ever need it. I do NOT expect them to drop everything and tend to my needs. I didn't have kids so I'd have a nanny-slave when I need one...

A mother ASKING her adult child to lie for her is just plain wrong. A mother holding a grudge, withholding love or whatever because the adult child says no is also wrong. This mother is mean and selfish (possibly somewhat dumb too, thinking it's all so simple to skip the care needed.)

Given that there is likely quite a bit of wound care, cleaning and dressing, it is better than mom has this done by people who are qualified to do it. OP isn't comfortable committing to this for whatever reason. It's ONLY for 2 weeks, so mom needs to suck it up and deal with it.

I spent almost a month in a hospital. Does it suck? Yes. Did I really need to be there? Initially sure, but given that I wasn't even allowed to eat, had no wound dressing, no PT, nothing to do all day every day and was miserable, I can relate. Two weeks, not so bad, esp if you have to actively participate in your care or are seriously laid up. I complained so much they finally sent me home, had the IV antibiotics and feedbad shipped to me, had visiting nurses come once/day to set up the feed bag, draw blood, etc. I was given a pump and would do the IV antibiotics myself. THEN it was better being home AND I could care for myself.
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Do not lie. It will just lead to more problems- I am sure. Your mother is being unreasonable and making you feel guilty. Enough!
your mother is being selfish and seems to already not care about you, so I don’t think you are jeopardizing her love for you. She doesn’t seem to consider you at all.
I think Medicare gives home care for a short time. Look into it. If not, be firm - you can do it. Tell her that there is no way you and the family can provide proper care for her, which is true. She has a choice, go home and get Medicare nurse visits or skilled nursing care, which I think the hospital social worker will help you set up. You should speak to the hospital social worker anyway. They usually help.

Don’t even think of helping to care for her at home,, unless she also gets in home nursing care also, and treats you kinder. Tell her this. You don’t owe her love, just reasonable duty.
sorry that you have to go through this.
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TouchMatters Sep 2021
No one makes another feel 'guilty' or any other way. It is how the recipient feels. One way to know this is if the same situation occurs to 10 people, there may be 10 different responses/reactions.
I would refer to it as fear through manipulation.
Mother may not have the ability to be 'kinder' - depends on if dementia - and the degree of the dementia - is involved, which it likely is.
Although with this said, it is CRITICALLY IMPORTANT to set boundaries, express them, and keep them.

No one needs or is required to be a door mat and exhaust themselves to where they have no life or do have a breakdown - for anyone.
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No one wants to be somewhere other than in their own home but sometimes given circumstances that is not wise or a good choice. If she catered to your brother and made you the low person, that is sad but you see how she is and was. You had a right to speak out even though I don't know the circumstances. She wants to control the situation and does not care about the inherent dangers of being home and what it is doing to you. Don't lie to the doctors - be honest what you can't do and she should go to a medical center. She is furious she is not getting her way. However, I had similar physical problems and having no one, I had to tend to myself. It is not easy. I would talk with an eldercare attorney and get a Power of Attorney so you can take over. This is not a simple fix. Please make the doctor put her somewhere to relieve you - if you take her, it will be disaster. And feel no guilt - you did nothing wrong. And if she is so dense and stubborn and hates you for what you are doing correctly, then so be it - but start to distance yourself so she doesn't harm you emotionally any longer. Think of yourself now and how to protect and take care of yourself. I don't think she deserves much more from you.
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disgustedtoo Sep 2021
"I would talk with an eldercare attorney and get a Power of Attorney so you can take over."

You CAN'T "get" a Power of Attorney - the person has to appoint you.

POAs do NOT allow you to "take over."
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No, you should not lie for her.

Make it clear to the hospital that your mother lives alone. If the hospital determines she cannot be home alone, they should be assigning her to a Rehab facility until it is safe for her to be at home.

Her distaste for a Rehab or Nursing facility is not the deciding factor.

Never mind the ongoing family drama about who your mother favors and who she takes advantage of. You still should not lie to let her put herself into an unsafe situation.
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"Even if he suggested seniorcare, she will think the idea is from me and shut him down. She knows my bro will listen to her in the end and get her home."

Whenever I read statements like this, I know someone has moved beyond logic into mind-reading, and they're wasting their time and emotions on things that aren't true.

You don't know what your mom is thinking, and you don't know that your brother will listen to her and cave. You've got everyone pre-pegged into their assigned spots and are reacting to that as if it were true and has happened exactly as you predicted. It may happen because you're willing it to.

Turn the narrative around. Create a united front with your brother. Approach Mom together with a single message that she can't come home because she'll likely get an infection that could kill her or land her back in the hospital. Stick to it, absolutely do not lie to the doctor, and take charge of this.

You're letting your perceived "golden child vs. defiant child" narrative get in the way of reality. Put that aside for once, and deal with what IS, not what you think is or will be. You spend too much energy assigning everyone their roles and their lines (including yourself), then ensuring the drama plays out just as planned. Try to do something different for once, and everyone will react differently as a result.
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No way! I wouldn’t lie to the doctor
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I have a question for everyone here: why does it seem like so many more daughters seem to feel this filial guilt than sons? I'm a son who has taken care of both my wife's parents, my father, and now my 99 year old mother. I've failed at all those things (in that they eventually died) except for my mother, and, except for my MIL, have unresolved anger toward all of them. However, all that care I and my wife have given them was our decision. Both my sister and brother and my wife's sisters and brothers bowed out of all of it, and there have been plenty of days and nights over the past fifteen years when it was almost too much for either of us. If I had to feel guilt on top of that, I couldn't have done it. I don't know what to suggest, but guilt is a terrible decision-maker and a waste of time.
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disgustedtoo Sep 2021
Hard to answer that. In many ways, women are viewed more as the "carers", but that doesn't make it right either. There are men on the forum who perform care-giving for a LO (spouse, parent, siblings.) Sadly, more often than not it does fall onto the woman's plate to provide the care AND sometimes take the abuse. Some people are just abusive and it just gets worse with age (or dementia.)

While both my brothers eagerly said for the kind of money MC was charging they'd take care of her (sticker shock - knew nothing about dementia and didn't bother to check), neither stepped up. OB isn't local, so the last time he was here to assist with the condo (a few weeks total vs 2.75 years for me!), I suggested he go visit her, as it would be long time before another visit, if ever. He spent very little time there and refused to go back again stating he "didn't know what to do with her"! YB initially would visit and/or join us for special occasions, but that stopped quickly and he resented being asked to transport her to appointments after she refused to stand and walk unassisted. This was in her last year, I did all the other transporting, visiting, etc for the 4 years in MC and several years before that. OB was, BTW, the "golden boy." Imagine how hurt she would be if she knew/understood what he said. There's still a little more "duties" to perform to finish off the funds (she passed in December), but other than having to mail a check to them, I am finished with both of them!

Some of us do feel the need and/or obligation to do what we can to help or ensure their care is provided. Others, despite being raised by the very same people, don't. So much for blood being thicker than water, eh?
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Can she go to a temporary rehab facility, where there is a time limit to how long she'll be there? This will give her a chance to get better under professional medical care and will give you a chance to make arrangements for when she comes home, if needed. Most hospitals have social workers who can advise. Talk to the social worker before she is released. It's not a good idea to lie if you are not able to take time off to care for her. Your own family has to be your priority. Try not to feel hurt about what she says, it's coming from her own fears and disappointment, and don't let her get into your mind to make you feel guilty.
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I think you did the right thing. You should not lie to the doctor. You would be just fooling yourself, mom, and your family. I would try to review the situation with your brother. If that does not work out, please make sure you get Home Health Care for your mother. Medicare, as well as Health Ins. will cover it. The doctor needs to order it with your mom’s hospital release.
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You did the right thing.

IF for no other reason that wound care is almost a 24/7 job in itself. You have kids. They come first.

I cared for both my FIL and my dad, overlapping by 6 months. My kids didn't see 'service and love' they saw that mom was never home and resented it. (2 tween-age brats)(they're lovely now, but then--hoo-ee, what stinkers).

I did provide the level of care required but it took it's toll.

Don't answer the phone. That's the magic of a phone. You can call screen. Talking to someone who pushes all your buttons is awful--wait until you have time and patience to talk to mom and then call HER.
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If your mom thinks she can handle being at her home, let her.
I don't blame her for wanting to stay at her own place and not some Understaffed Nursing Home.
Im sure between you and your brother someone could check on her every day.
She could have easy foods to eat that are refrigerated and or microwaved.

Achilly, the Best Place for one to heal us where they are happy and safe but I would choose happy

Prayers
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sp19690 Sep 2021
The woman's skin was peeling off her body. Obviously she can no longer be home by herself.
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I would never lie to the doctors. They are your advocates and you need to build a trust relationship with them. If, however, you need to lie to your mom, then that would be better. You may be able to tell her something that would appease her. If she is experiencing a form of dementia then likely your answer will suffice her and she’ll likely forget about what you said.
I know this may sound cruel but you are helping her.
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Your mother is only thinking about what she wants and is willing to sacrifice you to get her way. What happens if she goes home? Will golden boy take care of her or will your life be thrown into chaos? I will say what someone said to me. Your mother wants her life to be as she chooses and expects you to turn your life upside down, so she does not have to adjust to reality. She won't change, so you must learn how to respond to her demands. I had an almost identical situation after a fall and hospitalization for hip surgery. My mother wanted to go home instead of rehab. I was was working full time and up for promotion. She got her elderly sister to stay with her and I had two to worry about. I brought my aunt back to her assisted living apartment and told my mother she could either go to rehab or wait to fall again. She fell again. Yes I felt guilt but I was tired of upending my life so she could have no inconvenience whatsoever. I did so much, but it was never enough. Learn to set limits now. It took me way too long.
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AlsoChristie Sep 2021
Amen! My brother lived with my parents, never having moved out. He helped our mother care for our father and then cared for her after our father died. They all lied to the doctors. My mother and brother described to me a full-blown seizure that my father had. When I mentioned it to the doctor, they denied it.

My father was livid and verbally abusive when I refused to cancel a trip to run the 70+ miles over to their house because “your mother’s developed Alzheimer’s” overnight. She, of course, had not but was worn out from his constant demands for attention and to be waited on.

I was a teacher, commuting 80 miles a day and dealing with a great deal of pressure at school. On weekends I tried to catch up on sleep, grade projects and assignments, and take care of my house. My mother would call to snipe at me for not coming over every weekend. “What, are you too good to visit your sick mother?”

After awhile you have to ignore it and take care of you. Don’t wait as long as I did to stand up for you and your family. You deserve it.
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My mom (unable to care for herself and live alone) is slick when it comes to manipulation, Talk to the doctor and get your mom into rehab or an assisted living with the extra care of PT and other programs such as OT. My mom is now in assisted living and loves it. I think it was her fears of leaving what she knows/knew (her house). It was a temporary situation at first (3 months) and then she liked it so much she has not asked to leave. I know we are blessed and I am so grateful. Many prayers and petitions to know God’s best plan and our obedience. We didn’t know she would be in AL but we are so happy she is happy and blissfully glee. In the beginning when I told her that she had dementia, Mom accused me of lying to her doctor and I told her that is sad that she would think that because she is safe and well cared for and she knows I don’t lie. She agreed I don’t lie and that she doesn't like the truth right now. (Lol).
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OK first BREATHE.

Second. What's the bigger picture? Mom wants to go home. Mom is trying out her best tools to make that happen.

Her best tool may be those 'heart daggers' on you. Call it manipulation, call it emotional blackmail, or call it a scared old lady just wanting to go home 🙁

Snowycoco, time for a shield for you! Honesty and Common Sense make good defences.

Statement A "Mom, I want you to go home too". (honesty)

Statement B "Your Doctor says XYZ right now is best". (common sense)

Any requests to lie get statement A or B on REPEAT.

Please somehow lose that guilt. (And thicken up your shield in case the daggers get bigger!)
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By all means, please do not lie to the doctor. This is a serious issue, not a little fib. She is wrong to ask you to do this. Period. Also, it is medically unwise. In this situation you have to be the adult, consulting the doctor and seeing she gets the needed care. You cannot do this at her home. In reality you would not be doing the wise thing by lying. Stand firm. Truly it is for her own safety.
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She should be discharged to rehab for as long as it takes for her to recover sufficiently.
If you or other family members can not care for her what good would it do to send her home only to have to return to the hospital with an infection or a break of a bone when she falls trying to something she should not do. It would be more time in hospital and rehab.
If she wants to return home and be as independent as possible she should follow the advice of the doctors.
Tell her that the reason you will not lie to the doctors is that you love her and want her to get better and be safe.
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You did the right thing and the tough thing. You understand that your mother needs care that nobody can provide at home. By telling your mom the truth about her circumstances, you have reinforced the only viable solution. Unfortunately, this is not a solution your mom likes. He likes and dislikes are her business to deal with, not yours.
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