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My husband has heart failure and dementia and I have failing vision and complications from TBI and a recent stroke. We got a POA to take over her checking account approx 2 years ago due to a nephew who stole large sums from her bank account and used her name to open numerous credit cards and loans. The bank manager told us she refused to press charges. A neighbor called APS, who told us she could no longer live alone. We tried to have her placed in nursing home, but could not afford the 8,000 month cost. We moved to another city in MS, in hopes of finding a less expensive non-profit nursing home which would accept her. She has been placed on waiting list..in meantime she has been increasingly angier and hostile towards us, as she did not want to live with us, wanted to go live on her own. She has run away and reaches highway. We cannot control her. She has injured my husband by slamming a door on his hand and biting him, and kicks and pulls my hair, scratches with her nails, which she chews on and are ragged, yet she refuses to file/smooth them or let anyone else do so. Our health has deteriorated more since her stay with us. After she fell and broke her hip she was sent to rehab who discharged her because they did not use chemical restraint, and sent her to nearby hospital which did. Two nursing homes refused her due to behavioral issues and also because she was refused medicaid because she refused to press charges against the nephew. I was told to come get her. I told them no, that I could no longer care for her due to recent stroke , worsening vision and concerns re my husbands worsening heart condition and dementia. The social worker at hospital called few days later a saying they found a nursing home for her, and for me to come get ger and take her there. It is the first home which rejected her. I refused to come, as I was told she was penalized, and the nursing home called and asked me how long penalty phase was. I had called medicare and medicaid ro find out, but no one will return my calls. I cannot and will not go bring her back to our home. I will not sign any papers they are requesting I sign. Her other nephew refuses also. I am struggling to care for my husband and myself at this point. I hope someone reading this can help. We cannot afford legal help.

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APS ‘threatening me with abandonment’? Oh really? Ask them for details of the legislation which would constitute ‘criminal abandonment’ on your part! Say you want it in writing, and you will be taking it to a lawyer to check, together with the Ombudsman if appropriate. Do nothing until you get it in writing, on letterhead and signed.

Lawyers are often made POA, and I can assure you that they don’t personally pick up people from hospital. This is a particularly nasty piece of illegal pressure, and needs calling out. Margaret
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BurntCaregiver Nov 22, 2023
Margaret,

APS is blowing smoke out of their a$$. They're making threats because they don't want to have to do their actual job and find a facility to take the SIL. So they're trying to scare the OP into taking care of her.

I had a visiting nurse threaten me once with APS because I went out for a cigarette (I smoked in those days) while the client was asleep. She saw me outside the porch and completely flipped out.

I explained that I wasn't a security guard. Then I handed her the phone, asked if she wanted me to dial the number for her, and ended by telling her in no uncertain terms to 'something'-off. She did nothing and reported to no one.

No one called APS or anyone else. They like to make threats, but rarely does anyone (APS included) take any action.

Doing something about a situation would mean doing some actual work. The visiting nurses who stop in for five minutes or APS social workers are perfectly happy to never do any work and to leave all of the responsibility up to a family or whatever homecare aide gets put on the assignment.

This has been my personal experience with APS and visiting nurses. There have been a few exceptions, maybe eight or ten, over the last 25 years that actually did their jobs.

They will always be generous with the patronizing and threating of family members and support staff though.

In a nutshell, they're really nothing to worry about.
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If you have POA for her then you do have some level of responsibility for her. You do not have to move her into your home, or find housing for her or become her caregiver.

You tell the hospital that you cannot and will not move her into your home and that she is an unsafe discharge and cannot live back at her place.

The part about not being able to afford a nursing home is nonsense though. If her income is low enough Medicaid pays for it. If she has assets like real estate and bank accounts, those things will have to be liquidated and spent down paying for her care before Medicaid starts picking up the tab.

DO NOT for any reason transport your SIL yourself. Social workers lie all the time. They want her out of the hospital. Once she is out their door she is no longer their responsibility. She is as long as she's under their roof. Once she's in your car, you're it as they say.

Tell this social worker that she will have to have her transported to the NH by ambulance because you're not able.
When the hospital wants her out bad enough they will find her a facility and get her there. Don't you do it.

You're wise not to sigh anything either. Never sign any document involving a nursing home that you have not read carefully or had a lawyer look over.
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Are you joint POAs? With dementia, your husband is clearly no longer capable of exercising that responsibility.

If YOU are POA, I'd report the theft to the police, regardless of what dementia sis wants. Having the theft documented by the police is a requirement for Medicaid to move past the penalty.

Do not transport a person with dementia ANYWHERE on your own, especially one as unpredictable as your sister.

"It is no longer safe for my sister to be cared for at home. She is a danger to herself (wandering) and others (documented attacks)".
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I don't disagree that it may be helpful if OP talked to an attorney, as long as she doesn't pay one cent for it. The attorney could properly advise her on how or whether to sign admission paperwork that she correctly is reluctant to sign. Whether or not the attorney is going to do much for you without payment however is another story. Do not pay for an attorney if you don't have the money, it is not worth it.

I'm sorry, I'm angered by some of the recent posts by some newcomers here. A lot of misinformation that may unnecessarily frighten OP. What OP needs to do is calmly meet with the hospital social worker and/or APS social worker and calmly state that it is a dangerous situation at home for all parties, SIL, herself and her husband. Having SIL at home would put everyone at risk. It is not safe and it cannot happen. Period. It would be a violation of the SW's ethical standards to place SIL at home.

Social Workers' Ethical Responsibilities to Clients

I tried to link, it didn't work, but some of you may want to search and read what a social workers ethical responsibilities are. And one of them is NOT scaring sick family members who cannot adequately care for someone.

As far as the nephew stealing money, nobody can do anything about that unless the SIL wants to press charges. No prosecutor touches those cases because they don't succeed without the full cooperation of the victim.

Anyway, I'm done, OP if you are still following this thread, please don't be frightened by some of the nonsense you see here, please stick to your guns and look out for the health of yourself and your husband.
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GalligerTim Nov 22, 2023
Wrong ... Attorney Generals prosecute exploitation all of the time without elderly victims cooperation. What OP did is "granny dumping" and if you don't know what that is look it up. It's a crime and is also prosecuted. APS will not just back off from this.
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I would tell this social worker that "Threats and Intimidation" is a crime.

Then I would tell them that it is an UNSAFE DISCHARGE because you DO NOT have the ability to provide the level of care your sister in law requires. Period!

They are full of crap telling you that you have to transport her, EVERY facility will pick up a resident that they have accepted. Call her on that lie and ask if that's part of her training or is that her brain child.

Stand firm, every single person faced with this situation has been lied to by a supposed social worker. They wouldn't be threatening you if they could actually cause you problems, they would just contact the authorities.
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MaryKathleen Nov 28, 2023
you got it right
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Having POA does not require one to place the patient. Guardianship would, but not POA. Again, APS can do nothing to you, they are trying to scare you to get her off their hands. This is really their job to deal with difficult situations such as this.
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"Being a POA is different than being a court-appointed legal guardian". 

Yes, agree.

'I was told to come get her".

The hospital may want to move this patient along & aim for family to supply transport if possible. For a few reasons.

1. Escorted transport (eg non-emergency ambulance) costs the hospital money.

2. The hospital may struggle to get the patient to agree to transfer out - unless the patient willingly leaves with family.
Currently the hospital has Duty of Care. If family collect, then Duty of Care transfers onto family.
What happens AFTER patient discharged to family won't concern the hospital. Patient won't get out of the car at the NH, absconds etc. Not their problem.

But family transport is not always practical or suitable eg
- unsafe behaviours of patient
- family health issues
- family have caregiving committments.
You have all that!

So if you can't - you can't.
Keep polite but firm.
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mstrbill Nov 21, 2023
Exactly
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No good deed goes unpunished it seems...You try to help and get involved in a sick family members life and this is what it comes to. Truly awful and truly awful you are not getting help from the so called "professionals".

Please, please stick to your guns. DO NOT go pick her up. APS is sending you an idle threat, if it ever (it won't) got to court, you would vigorously defend yourself and no reasonable judge will see that you are capable of taking on her care. The SW at the hospital was trying to stick you, if that happens again, the SW tells you to pick her up and bring her to a NH that has accepted her, you tell them to send her there by ambulance. As Bounce said, you might want to resign your POA, but regardless, if there is too much involved with that, just keep saying no and don't be frightened by threats from so called authorities who should be there to help you in situations like this.
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Omg, OP, can you PLEASE seek out the advice of a CERTIFIED ELDER CARE ATTORNEY immediately and disregard everything said to you by a forum of anonymous INTERNET users, including those who sound like they could be pros? Unless you are seeking opinions on what food to serve your loved one who can't chew for hurting dentures, take what's told to you with a grain of salt.

95% of the time, a CERTIFIED ELDER CARE ATTORNEY will offer you a free consultation, as mine did for me.

Best of luck.
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AlvaDeer Nov 22, 2023
OMG, I love you Lea!!!!
This is too cute.
Some of our threads are currently going so long and out of control I can't even remember the subject. This is adding to my 81 year old confusion, and already at least ONE Forum member has suggested to me that I get my head examined!
You are right and I want to echo it. CannotContinue: Get thee to an elder law attorney ASAP. Trust NO ONE. Do not pass GO. Do not collect 200.00 (or any other amount of money. SEE AN ATTORNEY now.
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Let the hospital know that you are unable to care for her in any capacity due to your health and your husband's health. Ask the hospital to get her a guardian ad litem appointed buy the courts to take over decision-making for her.
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TouchMatters Nov 22, 2023
Everything needs to be in writing.
Good advice. Thank you.
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